Wednesday, June 29, 2011

the golden temple inside

images Inside the Golden Temple the golden temple inside. Queue to go inside the Golden
  • Queue to go inside the Golden


  • NKR
    04-14 02:53 PM
    what is your point duuude when you say "Let�s say you have a small kid and you are living in an apartment, after 10 years you save enough money to buy a big house and you then eventually you buy it. Then you ask the your kid �do you like the house?�. He will reply �it�s very nice dad, but can you give you give my childhood now?.�
    do you mean to say all those who are renting will buy after 10 years or do you mean to say that children who grow up in rented house or appt ..don't have a childhood ?? as it was mentioned in earlier posts ..there is a greater chance that your son / daughter will find a likeminded play friend in a good apartment complex then in a subdivision of houses.

    You will never learn. Anyways, if you read my earlier posts you would know that I have said that people who most people who live in apartments would be having valid reasons. I have also said that if I were in CA. I would be living in an apartment too. I am never against renting or living in an apartment, but I am against renting when it makes perfect sense to buy and when the time is right (which of course is NOT NOW).

    My counter arguments are for people who were scaring people into not buying a house when things are conducive for them. Note, when I say conducive it means all things considered as in the time is right, they have a good job, have found a very good deal in a location having a very good school and they have found something which has an extra room when their elderly parents visit them.




    wallpaper Queue to go inside the Golden the golden temple inside. Inside the Golden Temple
  • Inside the Golden Temple


  • nogc_noproblem
    08-05 01:40 PM
    A little girl asked her mother, 'How did the human race appear?'

    The mother answered, 'God made Adam and Eve and they had children and so was all mankind made.'

    Two days later the girl asked her father the same question. The father answered, 'Many years ago there were monkeys from which the human race evolved.'

    The confused girl returned to her mother and said, 'Mom, how is it possible that you told me the human race was created by God, and Dad said they developed from monkeys?'

    The mother answered, 'Well, dear, it is very simple. I told you about my side of the family and your father told you about his.'




    the golden temple inside. inside the Golden Temple
  • inside the Golden Temple


  • catopa
    07-14 09:11 AM
    send the damn letter, nothing happens, and then come back here and vent your frustration again. as you said, buddy, HARD LUCK indeed !!

    I cannot believe the nerve that you EB-3 India guys have. You are begging for a GC based on your length of wait!!! laughable at best...........go wait a decade or so more, then come back here and start this useless BS again.

    one good thing happens for the EB-2 folks, and the EB-3 community cannot stomach it. pure freaking jealousy.

    Sorry but couldn’t ignore this being an EB3-I applicant with more then 10 yeas in US and 7 years in GC processing. I think most of EB3-I are people who got stuck in this queue (specially during 2001/2002) have a master or more and applied in EB3 based on their employers/lawyers advise (My Case).

    I think the quoted poster needs to understand the frustration that builds up with people who have been waiting in line for a long time. I don’t think EB3 is jealous but happy for our fellow country men who got the bright side of this mess.

    Good luck and god speed to all.




    2011 Inside the Golden Temple the golden temple inside. Inside the Golden Temple. Golden Temple, Amritsar
  • Inside the Golden Temple. Golden Temple, Amritsar


  • ita
    01-03 04:44 PM
    I'm not with those proposing war on this thread neither am I with those advocating no war (I felt most of the reasons, not all, were ugly).I was not keen about sharing my thoughts on this topic or may be I was not sure so I didn't join this thread earlier although I've been watching this thread.

    No matter what is being discussed on this thread there is no war imminent in South Asia ,which is good.There's not going to be any war not because of the reasons that some of the folks on this thread that are against war were citing . We all know the reasons why there won't be war.

    There's not much that we as individuals could do to wage a war or stop a war ,that's for sure at least for now.

    Nevertheless it's interesting discussion.

    That said now something for you alisa.

    You are right. And so it is imperative that before that happens, the perpetrators and their handlers are hunted down, exposed and punished, in a credible and transparent manner.
    Pakistanis should want to know who is trying to provoke India, and risking a war in the subcontinent, and why.

    If you would revisit the earlier posts on this thread you would find that we did trace that part of the circle. With due respect I would like to ask, now do you understand why 'nojoke' is calling you delirious?

    Pakistanis should want to know who is trying to provoke India, and risking a war in the subcontinent, and why.

    Please revisit the earlier posts on this thread you and all of your Pakistanis(that you are pitching in for) would get to know what you want to know.

    Now Specifically for you :

    1.Either you already know what you are doing -trying to take everyone on a silly logical ride
    or
    2.You don't know what you are doing and thus taking everyone along with yourself on this silly logical ride.

    If it's #1 we have many smart alecs in the society and that's nothing new.It's for us to royally ignore you unless of course someone wants to kill their time responding to you.

    If it's #2 , though you have not asked me here's a piece of friendly advice, take it or drop it,it's your choice.But before you go about posting on this thread next time sit down and contemplate your logic that's telling you what you are doing is right.See if you are convinced. That'll help you a lot in many aspects not just on the subject of this thread.
    Your this unending tireless logic that is so strong that it won't let you see that you are doing circles.Delirium would be one word for it but my explanation is the customized(for you) meaning of the word delirium which seems to suit you aptly for now.

    why apology I am not responsible for the actions of those people.

    you would find an answer to your this question if you went back to read your posts just yours not even other posts on this thread.

    Imagine if after 9/11, an American asked you to apologize for the actions of the 19 'Brown men' (I am assuming here that you are a south asian male) who killed 3000 Americans, how silly do you think that situation would be.

    Now if there were incidents like 9/11 going on in this country for last 20 years, all committed by South Asians and then a person from South Asia keeps arguing that Americans should not go to war against South Asia to deal with a problem that South Asia doesn't seem capable of dealing with then apology won't look silly to start with and here 'nojoke' is asking for an apology almost towards the tail end of the thread(Meaning all the folks on this thread have been really patient,understanding with you and your logic though we allcould see through it just after first 5-6 posts.)

    If cockroaches from my house take a dump in your kitchen, don't ask me to apologize for that.

    If you keep your house shabby,don't get rid of the garbage that you know is breeding those roaches and those roaches keep jumping on to the next house from yours ...the said neighbor has been patient with those roaches for like 20 years...then when he and the corporation think of taking action(clean up) the garbage in your place... then you/your house mates jump in to say that your neighbor,corporation and you should work together or wait for like another 20 years to get rid of those roaches when the actual work can be accomplished much sooner, who is at fault here?.

    I've also observed from all your posts that you keep citing example after example, when someone joins in to break your silly logic you royally ignore those posts ,go ahead and throw another logical example at another post that you choose.

    For instance refer to this answer from 'GCmuddu_H1BVadd' to you earlier post

    Well, if one provinance is joined hands with the theives then the police from second provinance should kick the other provinance's theives and police (as*).And yes a possible revilary between two provinances.

    Suppose there are theives from Bihar that come and rob you in West Bengal. You can either send your West Bengal police into Bihar, and turn it into a rivalry between two police departments. And a rivalry between two provinces.Or you have the two police departments work together to reduce crime rate in the future.


    Moral of the story:

    Till a certain point you were fine (where many of us thought that you are much better than 'Zeb','Shuuyaib') but then you started (you kow it or not ) playing this game where you concede a point only to keep peddling this haggard logic of yours.
    On a humorous note I guess you are trying to get solutions to all of the pakistan's problems for free on this forum from IV members(be it roaches, terrorists, non-state actors or the state itself.)

    So go on ...keep posting your delusions ...or give your self a chance to
    think what you are doing...I'm not saying you don't think(just that your logic in on what can be called irrelevant overdrive). I guess even you would agree that too much of anything is too bad be it terrorism or your haggard logic.

    All those who don't agree with me keep having fun with this handles posts.


    Thank you.



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    the golden temple inside. Inside Golden Temple 1,
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  • nogc_noproblem
    08-25 04:43 PM
    What men say and what they actually mean . . .

    � "I'M GOING FISHING" Means: "I'm going to drink myself dangerously stupid, and stand by a stream with a stick in my hand, while the fish swim by in complete safety."
    � "YES, DEAR..." Means: Absolutely nothing. It's a conditioned response.
    � "IT WOULD TAKE TOO LONG TO EXPLAIN" Means: "I have no idea how it works."
    � "TAKE A BREAK HONEY, YOU'RE WORKING TOO HARD". Means: "I can't hear the game over the vacuum cleaner."
    � "THAT'S INTERESTING, DEAR." Means: "Are you still talking?"
    � "I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT YOU, AND GOT YOU THESE ROSES". Means: "The girl selling them on the corner was a real babe."
    � "WHAT DID I DO THIS TIME?" Means: "What did you catch me at?"
    � "I HEARD YOU." Means: "I haven't the foggiest clue what you just said, and am hoping desperately that I can fake it well enough so that you don't spend the next 3 days yelling at me."
    � "YOU KNOW I COULD NEVER LOVE ANYONE ELSE." Means: "I am used to the way you yell at me, and realize it could be worse."
    � "YOU LOOK TERRIFIC." Means: "Please don't try on one more outfit, I'm starving."
    � "WE SHARE THE HOUSEWORK." Means: "I make the messes, she cleans them up."




    the golden temple inside. as “The Golden Temple
  • as “The Golden Temple


  • GCNaseeb
    08-02 07:34 PM
    Thanks for your valuable suggestions UN.

    So, do you think it's a better to take a letter from the current employer stating that the position will be available at the time of GC approval, just in case?

    Also if I start working on EAD before 180 days, will that cause any problems in getting I-485 approval?

    Thanks again. I really appreciate your help.

    Once 485 is filed then you are authorized to stay in USA. If you want to work then you can use EAD; if you want to go in/out of USA then you need advance parole.

    At the same time you can have h-1b.

    Both things allow you to stay here.

    Now; once 485 is filed; you do not need to comply with the terms and conditions of your non immigrant status. However; you shouldn't start working with another employer until you have EAD.

    Technically; you could sit at home and do nothing; as long as you have intent to work with the employer until 485 is pending for more then six months and employer doesn't pull the plug before 180 days then you would be fine.

    You could try to convert the h-1b to part time or transfer to another company.

    I only know of one case where person was doing future base employment and invoked ac21 at his local office interview (law says you can do this) and stated he was going to work with someone else.

    USCIS adjudicator asked for a letter from the company that they had intent to hire him up until the 485 had been pending for more then six months. Company would not give the letter and his case was denied.



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    the golden temple inside. Inside the Golden Temple. Bylakuppe is the location of quot;Lugsum Samduplingquot;
  • Inside the Golden Temple. Bylakuppe is the location of quot;Lugsum Samduplingquot;


  • nogc_noproblem
    08-06 11:50 AM
    ..




    2010 inside the Golden Temple the golden temple inside. Inside the Golden Temple
  • Inside the Golden Temple


  • vamsi_poondla
    10-01 04:17 PM
    This is off-topic..but you need to think of small businesses that keep wages for < 10 employees etc in their accounts.

    Thats because the rich folks all of sudden who have more then 100k in their accounts felt unsecured and obviously the US government for the rich is helping the rich.

    Coming to the topic, how many think that Sen Obama (as Prez Obama) will help our cause in case there is a CIR or piece meal EB provisions.



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    the golden temple inside. inside the Golden Temple
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  • americandesi
    08-06 02:09 PM
    After making a trip of South India, Santa Singh, his wife and his son were returning to Punjab in Tamilnadu Express.

    Santa Singh was occupying the lower berth, his wife the middle berth and his son the top most berth in the train. When the train stopped at one of the stations on the way back the son requested Santa Singh to bring him a cup of Ice cream to which Santa readily agreed. When Santa and his son returned they found that a South Indian who couldn't understand Hindi had occupied his son's berth.

    Outraged, Santa Singh called the TT and asked him to help. TT requested that he could not understand Hindi/Punjabi so it would be better if Santa Singh explained the whole situation to him in English.

    Santa Singh explained, "That man sleeping on top of my wife is not giving birth to my child."




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  • inside the Golden Temple


  • chanduv23
    04-13 01:40 PM
    It is not illegal to work on percentage basis. But if employer-employee relationship is now followed the way it should be followed by law then there are issues. For example, you are not in the same medical plans as employees or your work insurance is not covered (or you are not invited in annual christmas party for employees - just kidding). Specially, labor approval procedure has heavy dependency on prevailing wages and salary offered. In percentage basis there is no salary offered. Think about it.

    There is a gray area here. You can believe it is legal because it is nowhere mentioned that it is illegal. The certifying officer may believe that it is illegal because it is nowhere mentioned that it is legal.

    From what I understand, employers ready to pay all these benefits if employee decides to be salaried, but will not give employee control over the billing.

    In my case, I never take per diem, but I do find projects on my own and control over how much I must get and employer adjusts payroll accordingly because I marketed myself and also work hard at the client and get projects extended due to performance which benefits the employer, I also help employer with inhouse work. My wife has excellent benefits covered so I don't bother to take any benefits from my employer other than the money.

    Anyone can be paid a fixed consulting fee, just not h1b. You can find US citizens working for hourly pay because they don't need benefits as they may get through spouse.

    As long as you declare income and pay taxes, this is not a grey area.

    Once again, anti immigrants can make this also an issue as for them everything with H1b seems to be an issue.



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  • immique
    07-14 10:10 PM
    why did you not sue your employer saying that he improperly filed the petition in EB3. you should have done it long time back and you can still do it. If you do not want to do it, you should have switched employers and refiled in EB2 with a different employer. personally I do not prefer to work for any such employer who does not understand the true value of your skills. such isolated experiences are not a justification for circumventing EB preference laws.

    Why do you write 'I know this mess is depressing for EB3 folks' ?
    Is IV not with Eb3 folks? Or are they not important.

    Let me clear somethings.
    Earning in higher 70Ks in the year 2003 and with over 5+ years of progressive experience, they still went ahead a filed my app under EB3. Was that a mistake? Not mine. My employer knew that Eb3 would be slower.

    What happened? cases like mine were eye openers and learning experiences for comrades who were going to file and they filed under EB2, I asked friends and relatives and classmates of mine to file under Eb2.
    Am i happy for them? No, I hate them. Of course, I am happy for them. Very very much.

    So, why would you not fight for us?

    If people like me and filers before me had not filed under EB3, and not shared our experiences, how would we have progressed?

    Suddenly, 'You Eb3 folks are depressed' from 'We folks are depressed'. lol for chauvinism.




    hot Inside Golden Temple 1, the golden temple inside. from the Golden Temple,
  • from the Golden Temple,


  • mrajatish
    07-08 10:35 AM
    1. 245(k) is applicable automatically for all eb I-485. There is no penalty fee for 245(k).

    2. Each I-485 application is independent for out of status issues. Does not matter Primary or Dependent.

    3. Needs more information. A person can be out of status even with pay-checks. Example: H-1B LCA location is different from actual job location, putting him/her out of status.

    _____________________
    Not a legal advice.
    You are right about the dependent/derivative thing - it was my misunderstanding.

    The USCIS field manual on this: http://www.immigrationlinks.com/news/USCIS%20Training%20Materials%20on%20Sec%20245(k).p df


    Best explanation I found: http://www.greencardapply.com/news/news05/news05_0825.htm

    245(k) reads:

    "(k) 7/ An alien who is eligible to receive an immigrant visa under paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of section 203(b) (or, in the case of an alien who is an immigrant described in section 101(a)(27)(C), under section 203(b)(4)) may adjust status pursuant to subsection (a) and notwithstanding subsection (c)(2), (c)(7), and (c)(8), if--

    (1) the alien, on the date of filing an application for adjustment of status, is present in the United States pursuant to a lawful admission;

    (2) the alien, subsequent to such lawful admission has not, for an aggregate period exceeding 180 days--

    (A) failed to maintain, continuously, a lawful status;

    (B) engaged in unauthorized employment; or

    (C) otherwise violated the terms and conditions of the alien's admission."

    Unauthorized Employment
    Subject to INA �245(i) and 245(k), applicants for adjustment of status who have engaged in unauthorized employment on or after January 1, 1977 are barred from adjustment of status pursuant to INA �245(c)(2). Unauthorized employment is a bar to adjustment of status to persons who engaged in unauthorized employment even after their adjustment application was filed. This bar does not apply to employment-based petitions where person worked no more than 180 days without permission since his last entry into the U.S. [INA �245(k)]. Immediate relatives and special immigrants described in INA ��101(a)(27)(H), (I), (J), or (K) are also exempt from this bar.



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  • gc4me
    08-06 10:38 AM
    Very well said obviously! But whatever we think about Mrs. Rolling Flood, she already got her lone fan SunnySurya who PMed her his/her phone number. :rolleyes:
    Sure they will have good time in coming weekend.
    We are here guessing whether RF and SS are girl-girl or guy-girl or guy-guy?:confused:

    Rolling_Flood,
    If you are willing to take action, I am with you. Don't worry about what other people are saying, it does not matter. A man got to do what he got to do.
    Let us start with taking some legal opinions. I am willing to share the cost.
    I also beleive (and firmly so) that the PD porting among categories should not be allowed.
    I am sending you my phone number in PM. Call me when you are ready and we can discuss more. Alternatively, give me your phone number as I definitly want to follow through.
    Thanks
    Sunny

    started by a guy/gal who possibly spent the formative years of his/her life buried in text books because mama/papa wanted him/her to crack the JEE and get into IIT... possibly feted with flowers on his/her trip to the US...after lying on the F1 visa interview about intent to immigrate...and now seeking to raise a hue and cry because the protectionist sense of entitlement is being challenged by law abiding immigrants...someone that is obviously closeted in perspective...

    obviously, a spoilt child crying sour grapes... the admins did not sweep anything under the carpet... they let this thread grow to 13 pages! obviously, you are someone that is unhappy with a lot of things. stop hurting yourself. you might invite a myocardial infraction given the rate at which you seem to be stressing out... there is no EB3 (majority) vs. EB3 (minority) issue... stop raking up more BS... enough is enough... someone has to have the b*lls to tell you that the world is bigger than you and your inflated sense of self worth and entitlement...got it?

    i still dont see the EB2 job posting for this #1 guy/gal in a #2 company... what a #3 (third rate :)) poster with a #4 (fourth degree) threat that started this all... i can help your company find a qualified US citizen for YOUR EXACT JOB... go ahead, do post that... scared to do that? :)... obviously you are!!!! Ha! Ha! Ha!

    PM me and I can help your company. No, I am not a body shopper and wont take commissions, thank you. Just thought I'd help a US company not have to deal with this immigration BS, so they can let you go and hire a US citizen instead. Seriously, I call that social service.

    While I am at it, I can also contact special interest groups from the ACLU to Gay/Lesbian Groups to Veteran Groups to find out why their members dont get the kind of protected 'lines' that EB2's such as you have! After all, if EB2 is such a protected category, why not have other protections for other groups that need such protections? We can go ahead and divide the world into pieces as small as our mind... :D

    My last post for this obvious loser... mama/papa would be proud, indeed :D... sad, sorry state of reality that we call the 'high skilled immigration cause' ...

    While you are ranting and raving, dont forget to get back to basics... and read my earlier threads educating you on the basics of EB immigration and why the current interfiling / porting is a valid practice...

    Go ahead, rant, rave... enjoy your stress... :D

    BTW: I have more qualifications and success than people have letters in their long names :)... so, I know a little bit about success :D... and I didnt get it by throwing others under the bus... !




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  • DSJ
    05-17 10:48 AM
    Come on man, stop eating disk space. I agree you are next successor to Bill Gate.

    Behave like a high skilled person. ......



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  • Sketch of Golden Temple made


  • gimme_GC2006
    03-23 01:12 PM
    OK..people..the END OF SPECULATION..

    I got the email..here are the details asked for..

    and It appears, the email (@dhs.gov) came from someone who was working in the local office where our file is sitting..


    1. current resume
    2. copy of degree(s)
    3. W2s since 2000
    4. information relating to your first entry into the United States with your H1B visa (copy of I-94, copy of passport – admission stamp and biographic page, etc)
    5. date of initial employment in the United States (per our conversation this was through XXX Company for a contract with ABC Inc)
    6. copy of income tax returns from 2000 to the present (all that are available)
    7. copies of work contracts since 2000


    Now..should I send or hire a lawyer..what should be the best course..I have all details..except..work contracts from previous employers..currents one I can get

    Any suggestions please?:mad:




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  • What is Golden Temple?


  • chintu25
    08-08 06:54 PM
    Boss: Where were you born ?

    Santa: Oye Punjab.



    Boss: Which part?

    Santa: Oye, Kya which part? Whole body born in Punjab.



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  • bklog_sufferer
    09-30 04:23 PM
    I totally agree with the orginal poster, if Obama wins the presidency our chances getting GC any time soon will diminish as the CIR will never include any provisions that benefit EB immigrants.

    If that happens, and if I have to wait for my GC for another 4 years (already waiting here since 2003, applied for GC in 2003, but came to US in 2000) then I will sell my house and move back to home country.




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  • m306m
    08-07 03:56 PM
    Political Science for Dummies



    CALIFORNIA CORPORATION
    You have millions of cows.
    They make real California cheese.
    Only five speak English.
    Most are illegal.
    Arnold likes the ones with the big udders.

    This is too good. I have been laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes... :D:D:D

    Keep them coming.




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  • toured the Golden Temple


  • desi3933
    07-11 10:33 AM
    Hi UN,
    First of all my sincere gratitude to you for your patience and the time you put in to give a detailed reply to all cases.

    Here's my situation(I think a case of status violation)

    I did an L1 to H1 transfer in 2005. My L1 was valid till APRIL 2006. So my intention was to work with L1 employer till April 2006 and then switch to H1 employer.

    H1 employer also applied for a change of status, which I was not aware of that time. I asked the H1 company's lawyer whether I could continue with my L1 employer after getting the H1 and she said it's fine.

    So I got the H1B approval in Oct 2005, but still continued with L1 employer till APRIL 2006, then switched to H1.

    Your last action dictates the status you are in. As the last I-94 has H1 Status, you have 30 days to start working with new employer (or apply for CoS to stay on L1). It is usually a good idea to file H1 without Change of Status if you don't know the start date. In that case you have to re-enter US on that visa to get into that status.

    Recently I came to know that this could be an issue. When I was filling the G-325A form, I wondered if I specify that I worked with the L1 employer till APRIL 2006, would they catch this?? Even if they catch , how big an issue would this be??

    If I put the dates to reflect the dates to show that I quit my L1 employer in Oct 2005 itself, would this be an issue?? I guess in this case, if by any chance they ask for any further evidence like pay stubs or W2 in that period of time, I would be in trouble.

    I would always suggest the real dates on any form. Section 245(k) covers out-of-status issues. Why lie and caught for fraud when we have protection under law.

    If caught for fraud, it can cause some very serious issues. I-485 can be denied just on this basis.


    [COLOR="Red"]
    From what I have read from the forum, A lawful re-entry should clear the violation in my case right?? I haven't filed the I-485 yet. My I-140 is pending.
    Do they catch this during I-140 stage??
    ALSO CAN THEY DENY H1B DUE TO PREVIOUS VIOLATION OF STATUS, WHILE I RE-ENTER?? This is my biggest fear now!!!
    Can I go to Canada/Mexico for stamping? where would I get an appointment at the earliest??



    1. Re-entry erases out-of-status and puts one in valid status. As per section 245(k), one is required to be instatus (or out of status < 180 days) since last entry into US.
    2. You were out-of-status, not unlawful presence (i.e. staying past due I-94 date). So visa can not denied on the basis of out-of-status.
    3. Not sure about getting visa from Canada. Is it your first time for getting H1 visa stamp?


    ________________________
    Not a legal advice.




    dohko
    04-09 01:46 PM
    You're right excellent idea. 50% won't really affect Microsoft, Oracle, IBM
    because they actually hire Americans.


    Chill out pal, don't exaggerate how much people value academic degrees in real business world. Holding a Ms or PhD degree alone doesn't necessarily mean you're an asset to this country, nor to a particular employer. I have Ms degree from US institution and I don't think it matters much to my employer, everything is based on performance.

    I agree that H1-B visa should be granted to people who fill a real business need, not those who are unfortunately treated as unlimited supply for body-shoppers making their fortune selling hours of H1-Bs. In this perspective, the idea of restricting companies with 50+% H1-Bs is brilliant. I wouldn't worry about management consulting firms like BCG or McKinsey, I bet they don't have half of their consultants under H1-b. :-)




    Macaca
    02-01 08:17 PM
    House Democrats Trim Agenda (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/31/AR2008013103857.html) Realities of a Slim Majority and Poor Economy Curb Their Ambition By Ben Pershing | washingtonpost.com, Feb 1

    WILLIAMSBURG, Jan. 31 -- A year ago, newly empowered House Democrats gathered here at the Kingsmill Resort for their annual retreat brimming with confidence. Before them was an ambitious legislative agenda and a determination to end or curtail the U.S. troop presence in Iraq.

    This time around, the hotel and golf courses are the same, but the song is markedly different. Gone is the talk of forcing President Bush to end the war, as is the impetus to pass a comprehensive immigration package and to stick to strict budget rules. Instead, Democrats are thinking smaller, much smaller.

    They hope to leave today with the beginnings of a scaled-down plan to pass a handful of bills in the House -- even if they cannot get through the Senate -- and build a case for November that Democrats have been productive enough to warrant at least another two years in the majority.

    "The agenda is, to some degree, a completion of the agenda that we started last year, as is usually the case in the second year of the Congress," said House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.).

    Presidential election years are traditionally slow on the legislative front, and Democrats have a narrow majority in the Senate. Even in the House, the 290 votes the majority needs to overcome any Bush veto usually are not there.

    Democrats may take their cue from the modest proposals in Bush's State of the Union address this week, which Hoyer called "thin."

    But that does not mean the party's to-do list is blank.

    Democrats need to pass a budget. They want to pass another energy bill. They would like to pump money into the Highway Trust Fund for road projects. They may reauthorize the No Child Left Behind education law. They have to push through appropriations bills.

    Democrats also have not given up on Iraq, though they do appear to be moving away from their so-far-unsuccessful strategy of tying troop withdrawal language to money for the war. Based on the comments of leaders here, any Iraq timeline language that moves this year will probably move separately from funding bills.

    And while Iraq was a huge topic of discussion at the 2007 retreat, the economy is the theme this time around. "That's what this conference is about, a four-letter word: J-O-B-S," said House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel (Ill.).

    The House is waiting to see what the Senate does with the stimulus plan it passed this week, and a second package could be on the way soon.

    Of the House-passed stimulus bill, Hoyer said, "Our effort was not the perfect, but it was the possible, and that's what we're going to be focused on."

    The same could be said of the party's broader agenda.

    Technically, Democrats do not call this gathering a "retreat." It is an "issues conference." But the mood is not entirely serious.

    Emanuel loosened up the crowd at Wednesday night's dinner by showing a popular YouTube video -- "My kids found it," he explained -- of a teenage boy sitting in his room lip-synching a Will Ferrell impersonation of Bush. The assembled lawmakers roared along with the video.

    The attire is also decidedly casual. Some members are strolling around in jeans; others have gone for the menswear-ad blazer-and-khakis combination. A colorful array of sweaters has been on display; House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.) met with reporters wearing a blue pullover emblazoned with "South Carolina. Smiling Faces. Beautiful Places."

    While Kingsmill offers a wide variety of spa treatments and "wellness" services, members here have a full schedule of panel sessions on weighty policy topics. They heard governors talk about state budgets and chief executives address the environment and infrastructure. A speech by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke is the main event Friday.

    Clyburn, an avid golfer, lamented that he has been coming to Kingsmill for a decade for official functions but has never had the chance to hit the links -- often because of bad weather -- despite the presence here of four separate courses designed by such golf luminaries as Arnold Palmer and Curtis Strange.

    But Clyburn said he is determined to get out on the greens today. Right after that Bernanke speech.



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